Finalizing Igglybuff, Jigglypuff, & Wigglytuff

[Zack]

Final words?

Igglybuff
Pokedex #: 174

Species: Balloon
Trait: Cute Charm/Rubber Skin¹
Evolution Chain: Igglybuff -(level 20 @ [hold item])> Jigglypuff -(Moonstone)> Wigglytuff
Heght:1'0" / 0.3m Weight: 2.2lbs / 1.0kg
Gender Ratio: M 25% F 75%
Egg Group: can't breed
Color: Pink
Catch Rate: 170
Base Happiness: 70
Growth Group: Fast (800,000 exp. points to Lv100)
Pokedex Description: Instead of walking with its short legs, it moves around by bouncing on its soft, tender body.

Base Stats (Original) lvl 100 Min-Max
HP: 100 (90) 341-404
ATK: 25 (30) 86-149
DEF: 30 (15) 96-159
SPD: 13 (15) 62-125
SAT: 36 (40) 108-171
SDF: 21 (20) 78-141
Total: 220 (210)

Learnset:

-Sing²
-Charm
4-Defense Curl
9-Pound
14-Sweet Kiss
19-Inhale³
25-Rollout⁴
30-Alarm⁵
36-Rest
41-Hyper Voice⁶


Jigglypuff
Pokedex #: 39

Species: Balloon
Trait: Amplify⁷/Rubber Skin¹
Evolution Chain: Igglybuff -(level 20, @ [hold item])> Jigglypuff -(Moonstone)> Wigglytuff
Heght:1'8" / 0.5m Weight: 12.1lbs / 5.5kg
Gender Ratio: M 25% F 75%
Egg Group: Fairy
Color: Pink
Catch Rate: 170
Base Happiness: 70
Growth Group: Fast (800,000 exp. points to Lv100)
Pokedex Description: Almost nothing can avoid falling asleep hearing a JIGGLYPUFF's song. The sound waves of its singing voice match the brain waves of someone in a deep sleep.

Base Stats (Original) lvl 100 Min-Max
HP: 125 (115) 391-454
ATK: 30 (45) 96-159
DEF: 50 (20) 136-199
SPD: 19 (20) 74-137
SAT: 63 (45) 162-225
SDF: 27 (25) 90-153
Total: 314 (270)

Learnset:

-Sing²
-Charm
4-Defense Curl
9-Pound
14-Sweet Kiss
19-Inhale³
26-Rollout⁴
32-Alarm⁵
39-Rest
45-Hyper Voice⁶

Wigglytuff
Pokedex #: 40

Species: Balloon
Trait: Amplify⁷/Rubber Skin¹
Evolution Chain: Igglybuff -(level 20, @ [hold item])> Jigglypuff -(Moonstone)> Wigglytuff
Heght:3'3" / 1m Weight: 26.5lbs / 12kg
Gender Ratio: M 25% F 75%
Egg Group: Fairy
Color: Pink
Catch Rate: 50
Base Happiness: 70
Growth Group: Fast (800,000 exp. points to Lv100)
Pokedex Description: WIGGLYTUFF have bad tempers. If WIGGLYTUFF get upset, they inflate themselves to strengthen their bellowing voice attacks.

Base Stats (Original) lvl 100 Min-Max
HP: 150 (140) 441-504
ATK: 61 (70) 158-221
DEF: 90 (45) 216-279
SPD: 49 (45) 134-197
SAT: 100 (75) 236-299
SDF: 60 (50) 156-219
Total: 510 (425)

Learnset:

-Sing²
-Charm
4-Defense Curl
9-Pound
14-Sweet Kiss
19-Inhale³
26-Gust⁸
32-Screech
39-Body Slam
45-Metal Sound
52-Hyper Voice⁶



1:
Rubber Skin: This Pokemon takes half damage from and attacks.

2:
Sing

Power: -
Accuracy: 55%
PP: 30
Target: 1 opponent.
Effect: If Inhale was used last turn, Sing has 100% accuracy.
Note: Sound based move

3:
Inhale

Power: -
Accuracy: -
PP: 15
Target: User.
Effect: User becomes immune to CHs and takes 50% damage until the next turn. Consecutive use of Inhale will cause Confusion status on the user.

4:
Rollout

Power: 20 (Physical)
Accuracy: 95%
PP: 20
Target: 1 opponent.
Effect: Has 50% chance to removes all Spikes on the user's side of the field and remove Seed condition from the user. Each consecutive use adds 20 Power to Rollout, and drops 5% accuracy. Can be used up to 5 times in a row before reverting back to 20 Power and 95% accuracy. If Rollout is used the turn after Defense Curl is used, Power is 40 on the first use and all consecutive uses add 20 power and drop accuracy 5%.

5:
Alarm

Special
Power: 60
Accuracy: 100%
PP: 20
Target: All but user.
Effect: Any on the field with the Sleep condition take double damage, are cured of Sleep, and Flinch (100%). If Alarm is used through Sleep Talk, it fails.
Note: Sound based move

6:
Hyper Voice

Special
Power: 90
Accuracy: 90%
PP: 10
Target: Both opponents.
Effect: Has a 20% chance to lower opponent's Defense by 1 level. If Inhale was used last turn, this move has a high CH ratio.
Note: Sound based move

7:
Amplify: This Pokemon's Sound based moves have 125% Base Power and Accuracy.

8:
Gust

Power: 45 (Special)
Accuracy: 90%
PP: 25
Target: 1 opponent.
Effect: If used after Inhale, opponent will drop its Hold Item.

[casmat]

Can't say I can think of much besides that you should just leave it as all fighting a electric attacks.... Not like it would make that big of a difference, and if you really want it so you can still get a SE fighting type attack on it, just make a trait disabling move...

[Zack]

Well, rubber bouncing back "ki" moves or resisting "charged" contact moves seems a little off.

I was unsure of all or just physical and special

[casmat]

admin said:

Well, rubber bouncing back "ki" moves or resisting "charged" contact moves seems a little off.

I was unsure of all or just physical and special

Thick Fat resists Icicle Spears....

Anyways, I think "ki" attacks aren't really widespread, and attacks llike spark and volt tackle and thunderpunch (and I assume blitzkrieg) would still get a lot of their damage from electricity, or else they wouldn't still be super effective against water types, if that makes sense...

[ITklown]

Imo, this seems good enough. But I'd go with casmat on the Fight/Elec matter. After all, it doesn't really matter that much.

[Zack]

Okay, edited.

I want to hear from other members before I move this.

[cock_block]

This recieves my stamp of approval.

[PikaPete]

looks good to me, not that I had anything to do with the creation of it!

[gun6]

This receives the Jigglypuff King's stamp of approval.

[Zack]

Any other comments, suggestions, or concerns before I make these guys 100% complete?

[leafgreen386]

Before I get into moves, I'd like to ask why the freak a balloon pokemon has higher def than sdef. I propose keeping its HP at 140, giving it 90 sdef and 70 def (so basically swap the def and sdef and move 10 HP into the new def). Def/sdef buffs will help it much more than HP buffs, anyway.

Now onto the moves.

Inhale's effect needs to read: User becomes immune to CHs and takes 50% damage until the user's next turn. Consecutive use of Inhale will cause Confusion status on the user.

As it is now, it implies it only protects you until the end of the current turn, meaning if you go second... too bad. So that needs to be fixed.

Imo Hyper Voice needs a bigger boost from Inhale. Like... instead of having a high CH rate while under the effects of inhale, give it 120 BP and a 30% flinch rate or something, or maybe 150 power and a 10% flinch rate (since it's such a loud sound I would think it would startle someone). Just an fyi, but you have about a 12.1% chance of getting a CH over two attacks, while high CH moves have a 12.5% chance for a CH in one attack (and should be KEPT that way; screw the 25% high crit moves of adv). If you use inhale to increase the CH chance, all you're doing is making up for the CH chance of last turn, although you still won't have made up for anywhere near the amount of damage, and since inhale only prevents half damage, you will still have sustained a fair amount compared to what you dish out. There needs to be a more substantial reason for using inhale with this move.

I don't like the rollout nerf, either. The accuracy drop seems unnecessary (it didn't drop in the real game afaik, although it had 90 acc), and it's far weaker than the game, as well. It's the same up until turn 3 on a normal attack or turn 2 on a defense curl'd attack. It starts at 20, goes to 40, but here... it goes to a measly 60, while in the real game, it goes to 80. On turn 4, when normally you'd be getting some serious power at 160, instead you only have a moderate 80. On turn 5, the real killer, you've got 320 vs 100. If you used defense curl, everything else gets pushed back a turn and turn 5 is actually 640, while in our game, it's just 120. Now... which game rewards using rollout and actually making it to that fifth turn more? I don't think it takes a genius to figure that one out. Rollout here is no more useful than any no miss move (except for the part where it's got many chances to miss lol), averaging 60 power over 5 turns. If defense curl was used, it averages 80. This is extremely weak when you have the real deal averaging 124 power over 5 turns, or 248 with defense curl.

Granted, you gave rollout a rapid spin effect, but the fact that it's only a 50% chance gives people little to no reason to use it. They'll still stick with the real deal because it's much more consistent. In the mean time, you've completely destroyed rollout as a potential high risk high reward powerhouse move, turning it into a bad support move. If anything, rollout should be buffed and made stronger. I'm thinking either 25 or 30 base power, and keeping the mechanic of doubling every turn it's used. Wigglytuff isn't gonna use the move regardless of what we do (except gimmick sets, maybe), so we should at least make it usable for the pokes who actually could take advantage of it.

Seriously, I'd like to know what was going through your heads when you made that rollout change, because it doesn't help ANYONE.

[gun6]

Well, if you poke a balloon with your finger, it's just going to stretch. Sure, it will burst if you puncture it with a needle, but it's still elastic.

...Now, put that balloon in a fire and see what happens.

Also, maybe Rollout could give +1 Def each turn as well?

1. Defense Curl
2. Rollout
3. Rollout
4. Rollout
5. Rollout
6. Rollout (+6 Def)

Wigglytuff used Rest!

EDIT: I see what ur doin thar! Reversed Blissey!

[leafgreen386]

Meh. Whatever. I think hard hits would be more likely to puncture a balloon than anything non-tangible would (besides fire, which doesn't count, or heat in general for that matter).

I still think that at the very least 10 HP should be taken out and added to sdef. 140/90/70 is more stable than 150/90/60. It's always had plenty enough HP. It just didn't have the defenses to use it.

Anyway... rollout. This should probably be diverted to the rock topic, as it doesn't have a lot to do with passing wigglytuff. But you guys nerfed that move so badly, when it wasn't even used that much in the first place. I'm not sure how broken Def ups would be on rollout, especially if we're increasing its base power, but it definitely merits some discussion. I'll c/p all that's relevant over to the rock thread so we can continue discussion there.

edit: 100th post

[CyberMewtwo]

"Pokedex Description: Instead of walking with its short legs, it moves around by bouncing on its soft, tender body."


can you say... pedophile's prefference? XD